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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Progress has a price

Hey Mando--not my strong suit, but the only point of contention I would have with some of this (though by and large in agreement), is with the various means by which folks calculate "debt" these days (eg, when "trade" aspects are considered, etc.). It's a figure that can vary dramatically depending on one's assumptions.

But, something yet to be raised, and IMHO, the one issue that in some respects is the root "cause" of much of this is the simple dynamic of "standard of living" (ie, "ours") and the "decline of imperialism" (the "West") over the past century. Point being, with resouces acting as they do, and advancements in all measures of "standard of living" rising as they did (again, for us), in the absence of exploitation of the rest of the World's resources (including "labor"), we simply are being faced with the very real prospect of "paying the bill" for the free ride (no knock on the free market individualistic champions that took great risks in "mining" those resources in the early 1900s and so on). One can argue it is untenable to maintain the standard of living we do without the consequence of "have nots" (ie, Third World), given finite World resources, and population growth. The consequences of our advancements in resource use, and the contradictory "humanist" inclinations of many, including the "right" at times (ie, that all children deserve an education, that all illnesses should be cured, that war is bad, etc., etc., etc.) means we have to re-evalute how our own excesses are to be supported under the notion of everyone having a place in the Sun.

One can always hope for a technological "fix" as so often happened in the past, but otherwise, it's a major problem.

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Progress has a price

at first look the idea of everyone having a place in the sun seems ok but on second looks ,quality of life become so degraded when too many people are already packer for a place in the sun,is it really a favor to force people to exist in such degraded situations ?